On My Mind: An Open Letter to Retailers (& More)
Happy Friday! Between getting all of the paperwork ready for the tax guy and pre-travel prep, I’ve been a busy camper. But I’ve also been making a point to get outside to enjoy our lovely (if cool) spring weather.
Solving the scourge of returns
I don’t usually use this space to vent, but on the (very) off chance that any retailers or brands happen to read this, I wanted to share something that’s been on my mind.
I subscribe to some fashion business publications to keep up on what’s happening in the industry. One thing that I keep reading over and over is how brands HATE returns, and how much of a pain point processing them has become. I get it. It adds to handling costs and can mess with inventory and sales projections.
I do the majority of my shopping online. Mostly it’s because the brands I like and wear often don’t have brick-and-mortar stores near me. And those that do, don’t carry Petites in the stores, or only have limited color inventory. My preference will always be to try something on before I buy, but that’s become less and less of an option over time.
And trust me, retailers and brands, I hate having to do returns as much as you hate getting them! So as an online shopper, I have a few suggestions that may help us both avoid those pesky returns.
Sizing
I realize quality control can be hard, but the more consistent you can make your sizing, across both styles and colors, the less often we’ll have to return or exchange to get it right. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve found something that fits brilliantly and order in a second color, only to have the fit be different.
And while we’re on the subject of sizes, providing actual garment measurements (rather than just a generic “size chart”) would be really helpful. I know this requires extra time on your part, but knowing that one size Small top is 22″ from seam to seam across the chest, while another is 18″ is more help that knowing generally what size is recommended based on my measurements.
Images
Probably half of my returns are due to the color being substantially different than it appeared online. Please, PLEASE stop adding smoky, “nostalgia” filters to every image. I realize it can be next to impossible to display some colors accurately in photos, but it doesn’t help if everything is over-washed in sepia tones.
And on the subject of images, flat lays of the garment (as shown above) can be very helpful in determining the overall cut and shape. For example, if every image of a top shows the model with her arms crossed, I’d never know that it’s actually a batwing style. Again, yes, it’s an extra step, but if you’re trying to reduce returns, one that might help.
Just my thoughts…what do you think would help reduce returns?
What I’m reading…
I’m one of those Type A people who’s always in a rush to finish and move on to the next thing. So much so, that sometimes I miss important details, or don’t take time to fully appreciate what’s in front of me. Over the last few years, I’ve read a few recommendations for this book, Visual Intelligence: Sharpen Your Perception, Change Your Life by Amy E. Herman. I finally downloaded the Kindle version and started this week.
It’s fascinating so far, and I love that she uses art as a way to expand perception, assess a situation, and communicate more effectively. Have you read it?
I’m also looking for book recommendations for interesting biographies, or history or art history. Lay ’em on me!
Your favorites this week
Bon weekend!
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I have to agree with you about returns. I live one and a half hours from the nearest place with brick and mortar stores so it’s a trek for me to shop. At one time I enjoyed these excursions, but more and more I find inventory is very low. Most of the time the color or size I want isn’t in stock, only to be told “We can order it online for you”. I AM naming names but Sezane is the worst. I want to see the whole garment from top to bottom. Returns are part of the deal.
100% agree with this. I much prefer brick & mortar shopping but the options are dwindling. In addition to sizing consistency, if garment measurements are provided – make sure they’re accurate! I’ve received garments that were substantially off (by an 1″ or more) from what was on the website(s). That doesn’t inspire confidence in purchasing online, let alone lead to purchases that “stick”.
Thank you for addressing all of these issues. I’m a if I love I buy it in a couple of colors kind of consumer. Rarely do I get the same fit in identical items. Very frustrating.
I so agree on sizing. recently returned a dress where the bust actually measured 34 inches in a Medium! I could not get it zipped. the size chart clearly said 36 to 38.
Boy did this post hit home. Having worked in retail, post-retirement from my real job; returns are overwhelming. And I still try not to do a return unless absolutely necessary. BUT at the same time, retailers have the responsibility to display and depict items realistically. One of my favorite clothing lines ALWAYS displays their garments in the most ridiculous ways that it is impossible to get a true sense of the fit or actual style of the item. Therefore, many times I have to return because again, no brick and mortar store close by. I do hope retailers read this! Thank you.
When online companies use models of different sizes to show the fit of their clothes, I would greatly appreciate it if they included shots of petite women and women under 5’9 as examples. As a 5’3″ woman, it is not particularly helpful to see two models, one 5’10” and the other 5’8″, as the sole examples of fit. In addition, please include measurements of rises instead of descriptors like mid- and high-rise, which can vary so much to be misleading.
This! I don’t get why modeling size inclusivity does not include a range of heights. If the average height for a woman in the US is 5’4”, why is the shortest model 5’8”??? It isn’t the purchaser’s fault that there are so many returns if retailers refuse to be realistic when choosing models.
I would just add that the “helpful” information that the model is 5’10” and is wearing a size 4 tells me absolutely nothing useful about the size that I need.
Inseam length. More companies do this; I am done with 26inch inseams. I will no longer order pants without knowing the inseam. Top and skirt length, too. “Hits at hip”! I guarantee hip length on you and me will be entirely different.
Agree 100% with this. I’m surprised at how few brands include inseam length and it’s critical for buying pants. Frank & Eileen is one offender; so are many denim brands.
Preach, Susan!
Dear Retailers,
Stop using models that are 6’ tall with zero body fat. You’ve gone out of your way to show a variety of face-hair-skin tones but you’re still showing unrealistically slim body types. These images are not helpful when trying to visualize what garments will look like on less statuesque, less slender bodies. And, the fact that everything is pinned/clipped to make garments fit models better is the opposite of helpful for shoppers.
Hats off to the very few companies that show side-by-side models, both slender and fuller-sized, so we can see more realistic images of clothing. I wish this would become the norm.
Kudos to Wacoal bras! They have a little online gizmo where you scan your body and it gives bra suggestions specific to your body size/proportions. In addition, you can use a tape measure and put your numbers into Wacoal’s website and you’ll get suggestions for the best bras for your body. Hallelujah, It worked! I ordered a dozen bras for try on at home and three styles fit like a dream. For me, this is a miracle. Turns out I’ve been wearing a size much too big in the cup. It was easy to return the bras that didn’t fit. I’m sharing this because buying a bra (or three) is such a frustrating experience. I know I can’t be the only one.
Susan, Thank you so much for this! I love J. Crew and Anthropologie, however, NO Petite sizes available in stores! At 5’2″ and shrinking, it’s a guessing game every time I place an order. I suggested that they carry just ONE petite size of their items so women could try on or eyeball the item and be able to better approximate sizing. Even Eileen Fisher, a company I could rely on for basics, has gone the route of decreasing what is available in Petites, especially pants and tops. For my upcoming trip I must have made three trips for returns to Anthropologie with pants. Also, have retailers not noticed that Petite sizes sell out almost immediately? So frustrating. Inseams are too long, shoulders don’t sit correctly, sleeves are too long, etc. and on and on it goes. If you do keep an item you must factor in the expense of alterations. Then you are invariably sent the How Did We Do survey. I mention this as a problem EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now I no longer bother filling them out.
Again, thank you so much for drawing attention to this issue.
Lisa
Thank you for this! You nailed it. I remember being stunned years ago at an article in the WSJ about how profiles were kept on serial “returners.” I was liberally using the free delivery/free return policy of the store highlighted in the article– a favorite retailer of yours and mine–and I felt betrayed by the insider vision of their frustration with returns and record-keeping/profiling (naïve, I know) . I never looked at them again with the same trust in our relationship. When I lived in a large city with a bricks and mortar presence of that retailer, I loved the convenience of ordering online (sizes were available) and then being able to quickly return it to the store if it did not work for me. I was more likely to order multiple items because I appreciated the convenience and the (well-calculated) emphasis on the customer experience. Now I am in a smaller city and the nearest mall with quality stores serving my age and needs is 3 hours away. So…having a liberal purchase/return policy is fundamental to me. I do not believe retailers would improve their bottom lines by imposing strict limitations or high fees on returns. I think they would just lose customers/sales and overall, profits would fall. I’d love to see some case studies on this. Implementing your suggestions would go a long way to serving retailers and the customer.
As for a book suggestion: The Kingdom of Prep: The Inside Story of the Rise and (Near) Fall of J. Crew by Maggie Bullock. Fascinating! I listened to the audiobook running errands.
As a person who would love to be able to try on Plus sized clothes before buying (which are very rarely in store), I agree with your recommendations for reducing the number of returns. My number one recommendation would be including garment measurements because a pair of jeans marked as size 16 (or 33) can vary widely in how they fit my hips and legs, so having that information in advance saves me ordering items that don’t fit the hole I’m looking to fill in my closet.
If you haven’t read it yet, “The art thief: a true story of Love, Crime, and a Dangerous Obsession” by Michael Finkel is excellent. We read it for book club and it’s the only book we’ve read all year that received solid 4.5 stars or above from all 10 members.
Susan, I agree. Being 5′ 2, I base alot of my purchases on correct length sizes and petite availability. And, going to alot of the brick and motor stores are no longer enjoyable. I’d rather try things on at home.
Here’s a good book/author to read: The Stolen Lady by Laura Morelli. She includes facts with her fictional stories.
Those are really good suggestions and I hope some of the right people read them. More and more stores are closing, so it’s harder to see things in person. I like the “curvy” styles and they usually don’t carry those in the stores. Your suggestions are some I hadn’T thought of, but I think they would help both parties.
MEASUREMENTS and flat lays would be fantastic. It would
eliminate probably 90% of my returns.
Amen to this post! I hope retailers are reading.
Bravo and thank you, Susan. Your suggestions, if considered by our clothing retailers (and other online sellers), would be so helpful. Size and color are definitely the biggies. As companies move away from brick and mortar, both they and we need to find a system that works. Of course, I prefer no shipping/handling fees to order an item. 🙂 But the retailer needs to be upfront about return costs. I do kinda understand having to pay for return shipping, though I gravitate to those retailers who have figured those costs into the upfront charge for the item. Paying $20 to return/ship an item to a retailer when another charges me $8.95 baffles me. Those are not retailers with whom I continue to shop. Such is the field we must learn to navigate. I ramble… You have yourself a superb day; I look forward to your posts about your trip.
I totally agree Susan. The fashion industry is complaining about a problem of their own making for all the reasons you list. Many sites also photograph models in poses that seem to obscure what the clothing looks like when worn (Sezane is often criticized for this).
Recommendation for two fascinating biographies:
The Magnificent Lives of Marjorie Post and Loving Frank.
Totally agree – Marjorie Post was a fascinating woman I knew nothing about.
I so agree. I find total frustration with inconsistent sizing. Another is disguising the crazy fullness in a top by only showing a model with hands in her pockets. And, please always tell the length of a top.
Yes, sizing seems all over the place and I pull out a measuring tape before ordering online and still ending up returning items because they aren’t what the website says they would be.
As for books, I just read “A Brilliant Life” by Rachelle Unreich. The author tells the story of her mother who was born in Czechoslovakia and was put in a concentration camp, how she survived, moved to Australia and raised a family.
Susan, this is spot on. When I find a retailer who has petites, I’m so happy. – not only b/c it will fit so much better, but most sites display their clothing on models who are at least half a foot taller than me (I’m 5’3). While I wear regular sizing on the bottom half, it takes a hard search to find pants length. Some sites don’t list the length at all. Just taking them in for hemming isn’t always effective; if pants are significantly long, the shape will be obliterated if hemmed. My daughter has the opposite problem and needs at least a 34″ length. All we’re asking is for the length to be prominently displayed in the description.
YES to consistent sizing! I was about to order a dress yesterday when I checked the size chart and saw that the brand’s XL equates to a size 10.
Hi Susan,
I’m happy to add my name to your open letter to retailers – I agree with everything you have said! There are various retailers that I have seen online that I would like to try that aren’t available in the brick and mortar stores where I shop, but their sizing is so vague and their photographs so uninformative regarding how the item would actually fit that I just don’t feel like going through the frustration of trying to order something from them.
Boy – you nailed that one! I say all the time how they try to “flatter” the item I am looking at by calling it a cleaver color and when I get it, it isn’t even close. Leaving comments on the website of the item may be the best way to vent so I’ve started doing that more. Thank you for your time – you are one I have followed for years. Trust your travel is without drama and you have a wonderful experience sharing with us in the coming days.
Agree with your consistency comments in regard to sizing and your color photo tops. I once ordered 4 different magenta sweaters. Everyone a different color.from hot pink to burgundy. Great fun read: The Editor
Spot on! I am prepping for an upcoming trip. I have a collection of items not available at my local stores that I will return due to all the issues you mentioned. Thank you for articulating my own frustrations so well. I hope retailers find a way to pressure manufacturers who produce the products retailers sell.
Oh wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Finally seeing someone voice the same concerns that, I am sure more than myself, experience.
During Covid I started really shopping on line. It was great on the one hand, but like you, sizing was difficult with some retailers and then the color shades with other retailers. And dealing with the returns is no fun either.
Not to mention that very few retailers dealt with the return without adding on more shipping, etc, costs.
I agree with everything you have stated here. I still prefer in store trying in, but that pleasure is becoming a thing of the past.
Kudos on this post! I just wish retailers cared enough to change. I order ONLY online, given my height (5’9″), inseam (34), size (16), and large feet (11), so am one of those consumers who makes a lot of returns. I hate it! I want to keep what I order! And I’m very dedicated to buying only what I think will fit, after carefully studying measurements, photos, reviews, etc. My current pet peeves include:
–Handbags where the interior is not shown
–Handbags where the length of the strap is not listed
–Pants where waist and inseam are not listed
–Pants where models have their hands in their pockets or shirts are hanging over the waistband — SHOW the item, front and back!
–Photos of models leaping and squatting and doing something weird to their face or hair
–The lack of flat photos, as you noted — it’s the only way to tell how long the sleeves are in relation to the torso
–Photos that don’t show the back of the garment
–Photos on only one size (tiny) model, even if you’re looking at plus sizes
–Poor color representation
–Receiving used, damaged items
–Receiving items reeking of perfume and clearly shop-worn
–Receiving an expensive handbag or pair of shoes or special occasion dress stuffed into a plastic mailer, rather than a box
–Receiving my package ripped open, run over, dirty, or otherwise damaged
–Calling customer service to complain and getting a canned, I-could-care-less response — or worse, I COULD care, but I’m not going to expend the effort to change
–Returning said damaged items and knowing they’re going straight to the trash. I hate the waste and it really bothers me that stores are causing it
A final note. As a size 16 tall woman, I often consider ordering a 16 and a 1X to compare. Any differences in design between regular and plus sizes should be noted! And honestly, now that Eileen Fisher has started to include photos of a plus-sized model, it’s easier to see what might work and what will look dumpy, too short, too wide, etc. In fact, I now specifically go to several department store websites that show plus-sized women to compare fit — it’s eye-opening.
I also order online almost exclusively. I wear size 16-18 or 1 Plus, have a 32 “ inseam and wear 11N shoes. I agree with you, especially about how items are shipped in inferior plastic bags. I also dislike calling customer service because you never know if you’ll get the credit you deserve. I had an item damaged in shipping which was returned to the vendor and I had to call to get my credit.
My goodness, you touched nerves today. I hate shopping in stores…too many products, too many people, too much travel. But I am now 5’1-1/2”and just returned two pairs of petite jeans because in addition to the price of the jeans, I would have to pay for shortening. Very disheartening to pay the vendor and then pay the tailor. Sizing plus color surprises equal many returns.
And as a visual learner, I already ordered Visual Intelligence…thank you.
Agreement inconsistent sizes amont same style happens often. Yj\his week two tees id same size, different colors, one lies nicely under denim jacket, the other bunches up.
For books, I’d recommend two:
1) The Judgment of Paris, Ross King, subtitled The Revolutionary Decade That Gave the World Impressionism. I found it very interesting.
2) The Warmth of Other Suns, Isabelle Wilkerson, the part history part real story of thee African Americans who left the deep south to join what became a great migration during the early part of the twentieth century. Fantastic author who teaches and tells the stories of the people she spent years interviewing. Pulitzer Prize for her first book.
Thanks Susan for this post. It really hits home and I would have to echo the other comments. My one add is that so many dresses are shown with a model wearing heels. If the retailers could include a photo in flatter shoes, that would be so wonderful. I also live quite a distance from nice shoppes.
As to books, I am reading Visual Thinking by Temple Grandin. She is an fascinating women.
Thanks again. PS- I love your travel capsule wardrobe suggestions.
So many good comments! My only contribution here re. sizing is that people are getting larger… and thus the manufacturers are bowing to that. As a petite, slim I too find this frustrating. What had been a Size 6 is now an 8 or 10; but then again, you never know which manufacturer has changed/enlarged the cut. I do find that British brands are more true to size for anyone small.
Spot on, Susan! I had a frustrating experience recently with placing an on line order as a guest vs. thru my account, but did use my credit card for that retailer. There was no return paperwork or receipt with the shipment. The store refused to credit my account and instead mailed a paper store credit which took weeks to receive. It turned me off on this store, a large national retailer, and I will be hesitant to buy from them again.
I have gotten so tired of shopping and finding nothing that is “me”, whether it is style, color or size, that I stick with just a couple of retailers that still have a reasonable selection; even then it seems many items have ruffles, lace of some type, tiered skirts and dresses.
Petite – don’t get me started, well actually you have. The average height of women in the US is 5ft. 3.75 inches. Why is there such limited selections of clothes for our size, I’m 5’1″? Few manufacturers and retailers understand that petite is a proportion, narrower shoulders, shorter arms, shorter waist, shorter rise for pants, not a size. In too many stores I ask if it has anything in petite and the sales person says we have XS, S, or size 2… while they look at me puzzled as I wear a petite size 8 or 10. I once shopped almost exclusively at a large national chain that had a great Petite Dept. I bought both business attire and casual clothes. The Petite Dept. is gone> If I’m lucky it has a rack or 2 of mostly jeans that might have a sorter inseam but not the right proportion and little else.
I agree that sizing is all over the place both in description and the ability of customer services to answer a question such as “what is the sleeve length from the back of the neck to cuff?” I swear manufacturers think women have very long arms. And as the trend seems to be toward oversize it has gotten even worse.
I can’t speak as much to returns as I don’t make as many purchases as I used to and I stick with just a few retailers I can pretty much rely on.
I am the average height – 5′ 3 3/4″, but, am not a petite. I have average bone structure, a long waist, and rather long arms and legs for my height. I do not have narrow shoulders – they are just average. I usually do not bother shopping petite departments unless I am looking for a skirt. Petite skirts will usually fit in a size 8 rather than the misses size 6 I usually wear. The waist-lines of petite dresses are too high, leg lengths and rises of pants are too short, sleeves are too short, and shoulders are too tight unless I size up.
You are right that petite sizes are designed for someone who has a small frame, not someone who is just thin. I am a perfect example of someone who is petite in height, but not petite in size. When I was young and weighed 114 pounds, I did not fit in petite sizes for the same reasons I do not fit in them today. I usually couldn’t find anything to fit me in misses sizes either back in the day (the 1970s), because the sizes seemed to start at an 8 and went up from there. I probably wore a 2 or a 4 back then. I weigh 20 pounds more at age 69 than when I was in my 20s, but my body frame has naturally not altered.
Retailers need to offer clothing in sizes for everyone – petites, talls, plus sizes, etc.
100% agree with you. I would also add, some retailers show the garment on different size models and that helps a LOT. I’m 5’8, broad shouldered and busty. How am I supposed to determine how a garment might look on me when I only see it on a 6’ tall size 2 model?
Yes to your vents! And to add to your list:
(and others!)
-stop with the “26-33” sizing in pants–I stop looking at that point as I cannot
keep in my brain what my size might be in that kind of sizing.
-yes to “universal sizing in bras”. Returns for bras frequently not easily done.
-make bras without pads. It is difficult to recycle bra pads and, trust me,
larger sized women don’t need bra pads! I don’t mean all bras but a good selection without pads would be helpful!
-plastic, plastic, plastic-please–ask retailers figure out how to send clothing without plastic attached! Included in that list are the tags that tell you how to clean the garment!
There are more but Susan–you opened a can of worms!
thanks for your great blog. Reading suggestion: The Ornament of the World
about the Muslims in the southern half of Spain over a 700 year period.
I am super, super picky about fit. Color and fabric also. For that reason, I’m an in-person shopper. I live in the middle of nowhere. It’s not convenient. From an environmental standpoint, all that shipping feels wrong. And yes, for crying out loud, manufacturers know actual garment measurements. Post them already!
Great letter. You hit all the major points and this whole online shopping is both combined and annoying. I like feeling a garment and examining its quality. I like wandering along a shopping street or in a department store. Hard to do these days as you mentioned. As for books. Do you want straight history and art history or do you want historical fiction or both? If historical fiction Irving Stone wrote some masterpieces and one is The Agony and the Ecstasy. There is a series of books by Phillipa Gregory about the English monarchy (The White queen was on TV) told from the womens’ points of view. They are wonderful.
Ditto! Great post…
Retailers want us to buy their goods, but brick and mortar stores are unavailable to many of us, and even then they don’t carry extended sizes. I think all of the above ideas are great but retailers need to work on their return process not moan and groan about returns. They will be a fact of life as long as there are online sales.
Kudos to you for addressing this problem. I’ve got a few pair of jeans from the same retailer that all fit differently. They are the same item, just in different colors/washes. I also hate to return items, it’s such a pain! I have 3 pair of shoes now that I have to return (not so much that the retailer messed up but my feet have changed dramatically since the last time I bought some; my heels are now much more narrow than they used to be). Thanks for being our advocate!!
I agree that the photos on online websites can make it difficult to really SEE the garment. My pet peeve is models with long hair which hides the neckline! I mostly shop online because I am above average height and I need to know the inseam on pants. If I need a Tall inseam I will not find it in a brick and mortar store.
Susan, you are spot-on with your all your comments. I think one of my biggest complaints is ordering the same article in two different colors & the sizing is different. Love J.Crew but so many times if an article is on sale then it cannot be returned if it doesn’t fit. Bummer! They have closed so many of their stores it is almost impossible to shop Except on line. Retailers please listen up!!! That is why I always try Nordstrom first…..free shipping, returns & fantastic customer service!
Susan, thank you for all your comments on returns. I agree with all that you have said. There is far, far too much guesswork involved in selection now. Why should I go to a mall where there are no petite sizes, no narrow shoes (for my narrow feet), and a dearth of color samples?
Books you might like: Edward R. Tufte’s brilliant books on visual information, you might start with Visual Explanations; Patti Smith’s memoir Just Kids; the wonderful classic Japanese Inn by Oliver Statler (400 years of history of an inn on the Tokaido Road); How the Scots Invented the Modern World, by Arthur L. Herman.
Two eye opening books about American history: Captured, by Scott Zesch; The Half Has Never Been Told, by Edward E. Baptist.
Totally agree with all comments, would especially like to see necklines without hair and scarves covering them.
Susan, I definitely agree with all of your excellent recommendations. I live in a rural area about 2 hours from a major city for shopping, and as a result, do most of my shopping online. I don’t enjoy having to pay postage to return items and wait for replacements any more than the stores enjoy dealing with the returns!
Well said. I totally agree. Your suggestions are very reasonable and should not be difficult to implement.
Book recommendation:
A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles
(I think the mini series will be available soon.)
On another topic, I read your post daily – usually every morning. Am I missing something by not subscribing?
Suz in Vancouver
Well said. I totally agree. Your suggestions are very reasonable and should not be difficult to implement.
Book recommendation:
A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles
I think the mini series will be available soon.
Suz in Vancouver
I remember thinking it was odd when Landsend started showing their clothes on models standing straight with hands by their sides, but then I realized it was a far more realistic representation of the clothing. No hands in pockets and leaning on a stone wall! Those make lovely photographs, but can be a distraction from the actual clothes. Hooray for more variety in the models’ sizes, too.
Materials matter, so purchasing an item online and finding that the fibre content label on the garment is entirely different from the online description will lead to a return. Stop it. Tell the truth.
I am really peeved by this new trend — Talbots is the worst — of photographing a top when the model wearing it is sitting down, often with her arms folded. I don’t want to see her; I want to see the full length of the top from the front and — again Talbots is the worst — from the back. I also have a narrow shoulders and would love to have a shoulder-to-shoulder seam measurement — a woman can dream, right?
I love interesting biographies and history books as well. One of my favorite history books is “The History of Civilizations” by Fernand Braudel. It’s well-written and engaging. Two biographies I could recommend are “Tete-a-Tete: Simone de Beauvoir and Jean-Paul Sartre” by Hazel Rowley. That was one messed up relationship. And there is “Secrets of the Flesh: A Life of Colette” by Judith Thurman.
You are 100% correct with those suggestions for retailers.
One additional peeve and a book …
Petite inseams are getting longer … are other petite women getting taller and just not telling me how they achieve this miracle as they age?
Paris to the Moon by Adam Gupnik. If you’ve read that, what about the new book about Julia Child?
As a fashion sewer (who still buys a lot of RTW), I can comment that the addition of lycra to fabrics + the many novel blends of fabric now available + the intense market competition w/ faster cycles of fashion all adds up to greater variability in fit.
Since many brands are now owned by giant parent companies (Talbots owner just purchased Chico’s for example), quality and fit have declined and there is ever-mounting pressure even among “good” brands (not high-end, but “quality clothing” brands) to decrease cost by using novel fiber blends that have the look/feel of something nicer in the store (wool, for ex), but begin to degrade after 1 or 2 wears.
I still have LOVELY leather jackets from Chico’s and silk and wool garments from Talbot’s from the early 2000’s; these brands rarely carry pure fibers today.
But the extreme speed of fashion cycles = less oversight and less consistency of fit. If a pant is offered in solid colors and a patterned fabric, often the two have different fiber content and they WILL NOT FIT THE SAME.
And the less expensive the garment, the larger the stack of fabric cut at one time = the greater inconsistency in fit.
SUPER POST!!! The stores themselves have created the return problems. Because I cannot find shoes in my size anywhere in our medium-sized city, I have to order all my shoes and will order two sizes because not sure of fit, even for manufacturers I have ordered from for years. I also agree with sizes, colors and websites/catalogs not being more consistent. Keep after them, Susan!
Have a great trip. Looking forward to your trip postings.
I agree 100% with your comments. One of my favorite places to shop online is ThredUp. I have a small budget, so buying second-hand saves me a lot of money and it keeps some items out of landfills. But, ThredUp can be hugely frustrating because of their totally inaccurate measuring system. Frequently an item on their site will so no measurements are available. I ask, “Why the h****n
not?” The measurements would be available if you’d lay the garment flat and actually take the measurements. However, when ThredUp does take the measurements, most of the time they are grossly inaccurate. Last year I found four identical dresses – same size and manufacturer – that had measurements listed. No two were alike. in fact, they weren’t even close! I recall that one dress claimed to have a bust measurement of 22 inches, another had a bust measurement of 28 inches. I know darned well that the manufacturer did not actually make one dress 6 inches larger in the bust than the other. I have learned that when I shop ThredUp I have to ignore their measurements. I have to have some knowledge of how a particular brands sizes usually run and go from there. Unfortunately, I have purchased brands that I am not familiar with, tried to gauge whether or not the item will fit based on the spurious measurements, and gotten burned. ThredUp does not consider inaccurate measurements to be their fault! I want to know, whose fault is it?? Yep, I have griped to ThredUp more than once and gotten nowhere.
100% agree about returns.
I was just looking at the J.Jill site, and very few of their clothes were shown on models. They need to give accurate measurements, show the item on different sized women, and display the argument flat as well. Reviews are sometimes helpful, but too many people say “Fits great! Matches my new shoes perfectly!”
When people review, they should really strive to give helpful info – was the color what they expected? Was it larger/smaller/longer/shorter? Snugger in the waist, hips, thighs, bust? Maybe compare it to a brand many are familiar with.
I really appreciate your descriptions and reviews of clothes here. thanks!
I’m currently reading Van Gogh’s Ear. It’s meticulously researched and I’m gaining new insight into one of my favorite artists as well as learning interesting things about life in Provence in the 1880’s.
Susan, there are so many great comments already! I live in Boston, so I am fortunate in that I can easily drive to most retailers. The issue is they often don’t have my size (12-14) in the store, and I need a tall inseam, which is never available to try on.
Here’s a concept someone else mentioned: Why don’t all retailers have each item available in the store in every single size? Just one that isn’t sold; it’s just available to try on, at least for the first few weeks. There are men’s stores that do this (Bonobos is one) where their brick-and-mortar location is try-on only (so smaller size store), and once you choose your size and color, they order your items for you on their iPads. And they do returns/exchanges online.
And don’t get me started about Talbots not even showing the back of an item. Seriously?
Oh my gosh you hit a nerve for me! Just yesterday I received a linen Uniqlo top that was too big. Despite their measurements on the website and their AI ‘fit helper’, the top was too big. I normally take either 4 or 6 depending–their advice was for an XL (!). I don’t have brick and mortar stores near me either so I do most of my shopping online. For me it would be easiest to return via USPS but now we have to go to FedEx or UPS (for clothing). I agree that laying the item flat helps to give you the silhouette (I think EILEEN FISHER is upping her game with helping consumers get the correct fit) but you are so correct that you can order a particular size and get two different fits because of cutting and sewing inconsistencies. Anyway I think you hit all the salient points: measurements; presentation of silhouette and color. Thank you and I hope retailers are listening!
Bravo Susan on the “Open Letter to Retailers”. You are completely spot on and every suggestion you make is brilliant! Now, how do we get them to listen.
Another 100% from me. If all these issues are common in a country as large and populated as the USA, can you imagine how we fare ‘down under’ in tiny New Zealand with a population of 5 million? I would love to shop with US and European online stores but I have more heartbeats to preserve rather than go through the pain of disappointment coupled with huge expense for shipping/returns.
Such a good post; I truly hope maunfacturers/retailers take note and act.
YESSS! I would spend a lot more money on clothes if retailers would follow your recommendations. As it is, I often don’t want to be bothered with the possibility of a return (especially if it isn’t free), so I bypass the items.
Returns—grrr. I appreciate a retailer offering photos of different sized models. We KNOW the 6-foot-tall, 118-pound wisp of a person can wear those flared jeans and double-breasted jackets–what about the rest of us? And, yes, the “flat” photos are helpful. Thank you!
I agree with all your ways that retailers could reduce returns and will add another one. Please, please show the length of garments accurately. I have ordered many dresses that turn out to be shorter on me (5’6″) than shown on the model (must be at least 5’8″). And don’t get me started on tops that are shown tucked in on the model but turn out to be waist length at best (I’m looking at you, Garnet Hill – know, this prevents me from ordering).
OMG! Suck an epic topic.
How’s that for the title of my very first comment on your blog?
Your suggestions to retailers is spot on. General size charts do no one any favors. One brand that I adore seems to have overly generous sizing, which makes ordering their sweaters extra challenging. Am I medium, large, or XL? I only know that when what arrives doesn’t fit because of the general size chart or even the general notation “Runs big/small”… by how much?
And amen, sister, on the show, the item as flat-lay or without the model’s artfully crossed arms. It all looks beautiful, but I have no idea what I might be buying.
Articles like this are how changes happen. Thanks for stepping up and saying what many of us are thinking 🙂
YES, YES, YES ! I totally agree with all of your comments about returns and why we have to do it. Extra measurements are absolutely key as well as consistency. If there is any way I (or we, the community) can help get this message across, just let me know.
What to read. I recommend Goodnight, Irene by Luis Alberto Urrea. It is a fictionalized account of his mother’s time as a “Doughnut Dolly” in WWII. The common conception of the Doughtnut Dollies is that they stayed at bases and USO clubs. No so, some drove 2 1/2 ton trucks and followed the troops into battle. His mother was one of these women, the book is based on her journals/diaries which were kept in a trunk she told him never to open.
I also second the recommendation of A Gentleman in Moscow, fabulous read.
Hey Nordy, if you’re the retailer with the list of miscreants – my bad, but if you have thousand of pairs of shoes online and merely hundreds in store, I’m afraid my size 9.5 Narrow foot may cause us both headaches. I have to order multiple pairs to find one that fits. Nordstrom used to be so great for narrows when I visited my daughter in San Francisco and could try on. But alas, no more.
I agree 100% with your advice to retailers. And I’d recommend the book The Art Thief by Michael Finkel, non fiction.
And please don’t photograph against a white background. The item just seems to blend in with the background and I don’t know where the product ends. Try using a light blue or green.
Diane
Well said, Susan, and everyone else as well. I hope retailers will pay at least some attention. I live in the middle of nowhere, a four-hour roundtrip from a store and the selection isn’t great even then. Online shopping, and online returns, are necessary most of the time, and it’s frustrating. At this point, I prefer to shop via Poshmark, where I can ask for measurements, with the added benefit that older/vintage clothing is often better made with better quality fabrics.
It would help if retailers would be clear and honest about any changes to staple products in their lines. I recently wanted to replace a pair of pants from JJ from the Wearever Collection. The pants had the exact same name as the pair they were replacing but the fabric was radically different, with no mention made of that. If an item is from the same line and is named the same, we have every right to expect it to be the same.
Susan – I could not agree with you more on all of your comments! At 5’3’’ and 95 lbs, it’s a struggle shopping online as petite doesn’t fit me in most cases, however the same style particularly in jeans (when ordering multiple) often fit a whole size different. Returning items (from Canada) is also a hassle. Hopefully retailers will make changes as you have suggested.
So agree. I’m a petite and my local Nordstrom’s has cx it’s petite dept-now the sizes are “mixed in”. Can all the manufacturers pls standardize their cut/sizes. In one brand I’m a 8 in another a 12/14 . Pls have petite sizing be for petite (ok not PC but short)women & not someone 5’9″ and very thin.
Oh how I agree with you. Some of my pet peeves are: when you mean slim pants, what are the dimensions, also telling me the inseam is 27 inches and getting the pants and the inseam is 30.
Joining the choir here… as a petite woman, I can barely find anything in my size in brick and mortar stores. So I am stuck doing most of my ordering online. I hate having to return things, but I often have to. All of your insights, Susan, echo my sentiments.
And to those who commented that they wondered if petite inseams are getting longer by the year, no kidding!!! I’ve noticed that too. These days, I order “petite” slacks only to stand in a puddle of fabric at each foot, wondering what Amazon is going to fit in them. Because it certainly isn’t any gal 5’4″ or shorter!
I’m going to chime in again! (love the comments here and totally agree!) I was 5′ 5″ (now 5’4″) and I am short waisted. So for ? years (4? 5?) the cropped pants are just too short for me! Petite is out of the question because they’re too cropped as well. Weird.
I do hope retailers become aware of your letter. They are partially responsible for the many returns. Garment measurements are an absolute necessity. Lands End is the only one I know who has a chart of them for every item. Many don’t even list the length of a shirt….upper hip and lower hip mean nothing. Pant leg widths are another bit of information that I cannot understand why they don’t realize the importance of. About shipping costs, I will pay one way but not both. Talbots gifted me a $40 coupon so I ordered a sweater that I did not care for. They charged shipping both ways so I paid $18 to try on that sweater. . Unfortunately, I am returning more and more after becoming aware of how many garments are in my closet that I would have left behing if I had tried them in a store.
Great topic, Susan! Agree 100 percent with all of the comments. I used to enjoy shopping, but now it is a nightmare. However, I want to share two on-line retailers that do better than most. For lingerie, HerRoom (herroom.com) cannot be beat! Great fit tools, universal sizing, very detailed fitting notes, good photos on a variety of shapes and sizes. Many of their bras are also shown with different necklines. The customer service is great! My other favorite is wool& (wooland.com). They have a Shop by Model feature with height, bust, waist, and hip measurements that really help know where to start (e.g., I am closest to Elana’s size M on the bottom, but size up to L on top since I have a bigger chest). Their clothing is amazing and the colors have always been really accurate and fabulous.
Thank you Susan for a fabulous post. I don’t know what I can add that hasn’t already been shared in the comments other than as a petite (5’3″ when I last checked but possibly shorter now) I cannot find much in the brick & mortar shops in my medium size city so I rely on online for most things and hate having to return them for all the reasons mention. I do want to add my recommendation to A Gentleman in Moscow as a fabulous book, one of my all time favorites.
I find that retailers discourage returns by making it hard to find on site. Then some of stores do not have locations that are close to where I live. Now there are some retailers like Talbots that do have local locations. Sometimes I am just too lazy to have to go into the stores. I ordered some underwear at online location and by the time they got back to me with the information I needed for the return it was too late to return. That retailer was not Soma. I do most of my shopping on line
A book you might enjoy is The Daughters of Yalta by Catherine Grace Katz, about the role played by the daughters of FDR, Churchill, and Averell Harriman (US ambassador to the USSR) in the Yalta conference. It’s very well written, and I learned a great deal about the negotiations among the allies at the close of World War II.
Susan, I agree totally with this post, and also want to thank you for introducing me to Ruti. Her designs are cut to be flattering and forgiving on a variety of shapes and sizes, making it easier to purchase a garment that actually fits and looks great. At 5’3”, I also appreciate that she carries some petites. Her architectural pieces achieve her goals of being flattering, cool, and practical.
Re books: I second the recommendation of “The Warmth of Other Suns” by Isabel Wilkerson. It’s a historical masterpiece for which Ms. Wilkerson received a Pulitzer Prize.
Re retailers: Tons of noteworthy comments already. In the aftermath of the pandemic, the lowest quality fabric is used to make garments. And I refuse to buy anything when the fabric is described as mixed media. No thank you! Another pet peeve is when retailers do not show the interior of handbags. I am 5’2 and I’ve noticed that non-adjustable crossbody straps are too long for me. Is it too much to ask for choices between a short crossbody strap and a long crossbody strap?
Thanks for all you do, Susan.
Yes! There are so many pictures of models that are covering up the clothes, or arty (weird )slouchy angles it is really hard to see exactly the shape of the garment!
Thank you for this open letter. I don’t shop much on line for clothing as I live in a good-sized city and am a pretty universal size and can do alterations such as hemming pants. However, I have been disappointed by the quality of fabric in some on-line purchases. It looks great for one or two wears/washes and then looks pretty worn out. A great book: The Invention of Nature, a bio of Alexander Von Humbolt. author is Andrea Wulf. It is amazing what this man understood 250 years ago. I also learned a great deal about South America. Another: The Revolutionary Samuel Adams by Stacy Schiff. She is a wonderful writer. I thought political spin was a relatively new invention. Not So. Samuel Adams was the originator perhaps!
Good night Irene by Luis Alberto Urea is wonderful historic fiction. I highly recommend it; along with The Women by Kristen Hannah.
I hate when they always the model twisted around and you can’t see what the garment looks like! Also if you give good front view, please give a side view and back view too!
More gripes to retailers!
Shipping items in an order in multiple boxes with multiple carriers, and the boxes do not contain receipts so I have to track down what I ordered through email confirmations.
Lack of information on shoe sizes (width, length etc.) – more info might help those of us with narrow or wide feet, and help in trying new brands without having to order multiple sizes.
Allowing customers to do in store returns to “sister brands”, talking about J. Crew and Madewell, Banana Republic and Athleta as examples.
I totally agree with you!! So frustrating to get the clothing only to discover the colour is not what you expected or the sizing is way off!
And what others have said, use some 5’4″models.
thanks
How do I stop getting everyone’s comments? I checked the box thinking I would only get a reply from Susan!
Hi Jan, at the bottom of each email notification there’s a link to unsubscribe, but I’ve gone ahead and unsubscribed you from my end.
Amen Susan on the Returns vent !!! Agree 100%.
As for book suggestion
Becoming Madame Secretary by Stephanie Dray.
Thank-you so much for this post. I also do a lot of online shopping and I hate making returns but often do, due to having.purchased more than one size of an item. One of the brands I shop frequently does have a brick-and-mortar store in my small city, but always has limited inventory and limited sizes. So I order online and return what doesn’t work out in person. The sales associates are barely civil toward me and I don’t blame them. I rarely make a purchase; I’m there to make a return. Your tips for the industry are spot-on.
Sizing! They can do it for men’s clothing, and they can certainly do it for women’s if they weren’t trying to fool us into thinking we wear an XXXS. I now only order from labels that I can pretty much tell from previous purchases that the sizing is relatively accurate. Naming names, Gap and Bonmarche (UK) are good for that.
Yes! There are so many pictures of models that are covering up the clothes, or arty (weird )slouchy angles it is really hard to see exactly the shape of the garment!
I think retailers cannot complain about the returns. When you enter the online world, your reach is so much further than brick and mortar. And your expenses still (so much) less. If you do your homework as retailer, you must have calculated what the cost are versus the profit. As long as there is a good ratio, you shouldn’t complain about the returns as it is part of your business offering. If you do complain you are greedy. If the ratio cost/profit isn’t good, you have to improve on your business and that can mean many things. You gave some valuable tips Susan, but an entrepreneur should be able to come up with solutions themselves.
Greetje
Thank you, Susan for raising this topic. I do hope the retailers read your post and all the comments as well.
Hi Susan,
I have read “Visual Intelligence” and it is excellent. Herman also has a talk on her book on YouTube, covering some of what’s in her book. You might enjoy watching that as well. Cheers!
So many lady jackets or other tweed jackets have been cropped this last year but don’t mention cropped in it’s one liner. Then in the specifications it will say- “hits at waist.” Why can’t it just say 19inches long or 23 inches long? Everyone is not shirtwaist or long waist- measurements are helpful.
Any yes, please show the back of the garment.
Thank you, great thoughtful post.
The only Nordstrom near me closed before Covid.
I wear mainly Eileen Fisher & even before they closed they only carried 3 pieces in each size & style.They had very few plus sizes in new styles but you would look online & there would easily be 10X the options. I have medium to 2x EF in my closet.It does make it hard to always order the right size & do not even mention the different Navy/Blue different color ways. I do applaud Eileen Fisher & Nordstrom for their easy return/exchange policies but I like you would like to get it right the first time.
Yes, yes, yes to ALL of your comments about shopping! Especially the sizing. I know what my measurements are. What I need online is the measurements of the garment I intend to purchase. What is the waist circumference of that garment? How about the bust? How long is the sleeve? Etc. I’m a petite, too, and it’s gotten very frustrating. Maybe a retailer will happen upon your post. Thank you for your blog. Happy Sunday!
Thank you, thank you, for voicing these widespread and shared concerns.
As for biographies, and with the bonus of highlighting the visual, I highly recommend The Paper Garden: An Artist Begins Her Life’s Work at 72, a biography of Mary Delaney, who later in life and recently widowed, created–invented, really–mixed media collages. The book transports you back to the 18th century, comments on the value of friendship, and includes images of the botanical collages. A garden for the mind and eye and heart.
Flat lay and measurements of the garment work best. Fabric content completely noted. For models use AI.
Finally someone brought this subject up… thanks Susan.
Right on, sister! I would love to read any response you get from retailers. My other observation is that department stores are replacing trusted brands (where sizing is known and more consistent) with poorer quality house brands. Yes, they may make more money with this approach, but they have lost me as a customer.
I can get more information from the average eBay listing than I can from catalogs or online sales listings of the average retailer. If retailers will not have my size or item in the store (petites), retailers should complain about the returns.