Shopping For Love In All The Wrong Places?

Or… Escaping The Petites Department.

Theory Leather Trim Jacket
Theory ‘Antonito’ Knit & Leather Jacket. This is one of those fabulously forgiving pieces that can work on a variety of shapes and sizes, including short and curvy.

Duchesse’s post last week on Eileen Fisher brought out a lot of strong opinions in comments, both pro and con on the brand and the styles. As readers here are aware, I have many basic EF items in my wardrobe that I wear frequently, and a point I made in comments on that post is that there are very few designers or brands that offer high quality, well-made garments in Petites or Women’s sizes (Eileen Fisher is one of the very few). I can’t speak to women’s sizes, but the number of places I can shop for petites seems to shrink annually. I’m tired of having to pick from a selection of garments with at least one (often many) of these drawbacks: poor construction, dishraggy fabrics, twee or dowdy designs, poor fit. I can make my collection of EF pieces cover most of my bases, but if I want something a bit more structured, fitted or tailored, I have to look elsewhere.

So I’ve begun venturing out into the Misses section more and more frequently. It seems that of the really great pieces I’ve found in the last several months, none of them were Petites sizes. There was the leather-sleeved Theory jacket, the Alice + Olivia sweater, the Sandro lightweight utility jacket, the Equipment blouse. All fit 5’1″ me just fine, even if a bit longer than on someone 5’6″.

Even pants, yes. One of those items that’s been lacking in my wardrobe for quite a while now is a good pair of wool trousers, the kind you can wear to work with a sweater or out to a nice dinner with silky blouse and heels. Over the weekend, on a whim, I tried perusing the Misses section at Nordstrom, thinking that perhaps a pair of “cropped” length pants would at least hit me at the ankle. On the recommendation of one of the Sales Associates, I tried this pair from Vince.

Vince tuxedo pants
Vince ‘Strapping’ Stretch Wool Trousers

Though just a wee bit longer than ideal, these pants otherwise fit like a dream. And the fabric….substantial but with a lovely hand and drape. (There’s also a very subtle same-fabric tuxedo stripe on the outside seam, which adds not only visual interest, but a bit of structure.) Nordstrom hems for free, and once I saw them pinned up to the proper length for me, it was a no-brainer.

Though I’ve fought with the concept for years now, I’m realizing that if I’m truly going to invest in building a wardrobe foundation of good quality, well-fitting pieces, alterations are going to be a fact of life. I’ll need to find a good tailor and quit expecting everything to fit perfectly right off the rack. And to keep an open mind about sizes and brands.

Have you changed how you shop for clothes or accessories? Have you narrowed in on brands or stores that seem to work best for you or do you tend to try everything? Do you regularly have pieces altered or alter them yourself?

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48 Comments

  1. VInce is my new favorite brand, but I just cannot wrap my mind around wool pants that are not lined. At $200 (or more) a pair, I expect a lining. So I am still giving all those lovely pants a pass.

    1. I so agree! But fewer and fewer brands are offering lined wool pants at any price point. This year, I haven’t found any yet.

  2. I can do some alterations, say simple hems, myself. If something has a lining I take it to the tailor who has been upstairs from the local naughty bookstore. It’s a strange combination, perhaps half-clothed bodies is the theme, but he’s been shortening sleeves and complicated hems for me for quite some time.

    I don’t limit my alterations to expensive items. I have perfect jackets from the likes of Old Navy that have been regulars in my closet mostly by virtue of alterations. Clothing that fits is important to me.

  3. And I have just the opposite problem – my 6 ft body is difficult to fit, and the few things available in a tall length often don’t fit elsewhere – too big in the hips, too long in the crotch – or are made, as you describe for petites, in a shabby fabric. I very rarely shop from catalogues for just that reason – what looks good on a page turns out to be a not-up-to-snuff fabric most often. My favorite place to shop is Amsterdam, since I can go into almost any store there and find things that fit great… but of course that involves a transatlantic fight! I frequently have things altered, but unlike the petite challenge of shortening pants or skirts, you can’t LENGTHEN things… there’s rarely enough hem to make a difference. Oh the trials of shopping!

    1. Anne, once I actually picked up a pair of trousers in Amsterdam for a friend your height, in a brand she already had. Thank goodness they fit properly. I felt out of place buying them: I’m about an inch taller than Pseu.

      A Dutch colleague is a tiny lady of Southeast Asian descent; Pseu and I would tower over her. She is always well turned out; I’m not close enough to her to ask her where on earth she buys her clothes. Perhaps in Paris, but they would still be too long…

      My Dutch friends’ bicycles are too large for me to borrow them; the coathooks are too high, as are the straps on trams… Dutch are now the tallest people in the world.

      It is possible that a department store or boutique could ship them. I don’t know of any good Dutch online shops with quality fabrics, but perhaps they exist now

  4. I used to shop on-line at the Wallis UK store, whose petite trousers fitted me perfectly until one day – for some bizarre reason – they decided to lengthen them! Through another blogger I then discovered Lands End, so I have started buying casual trousers from their website. I also have a smart pair of Banana Republic ankle cropped trousers that are ideal for going out in the evening.

  5. I am still in process (yes even at 60) of deciding where I will shop. I think that is because my body is still in process. The strength training is working to make changes…so I am going to wait to see where I will buy pants. Right now I live between two worlds…that of Women’s sizes and Misses sizes…I am slowly going over to Misses once again and hopefully will stay there. BTW…I am so in love with that knit and leather jacket…it is beyond cool!!

  6. Hahaha as I read your post I kept thinking get out of my head, will you? I have the same thoughts. I’m 5’1″ and have the same issue. Lately I have been buying regular sizes and getting them altered which is an espense I’d rather not incurr but, if I want the clothes to fit properly, one I have to get used to.

  7. One of the problems with a lot of women’s (14W, etc.) clothing is that the garments are just a bigger cut of misses sizes. There seldom is additional styling needed to make them fit a big gal’s body. This might be less obvious to folks shopping the low end of the big gal sizes (14W, 16W) but beyond those sizes lots of clothes get very tent-y –even pants!! What does a woman built along Amazonian dimensions do? Obviously tailoring can help a lot but often the entire garment needs help. Sigh. Men have so many more options for their various body sizes in clothing — and usually free tailoring!

  8. I am long waisted with short legs so petite pants are usually too short in the rise. I need all pants and most tops hemmed, even workout clothes. I have been so lucky to find a tailor that is very inexpensive, even after a tip he is a steal of a deal. I live in fear he will retire. Every blue moon when I find a pair of jeans in the perfect length, I think – I should just wait, these will be put on the clearance rack soon since no one else will fit this short length and long rise.

  9. What I really hate about women’s sizing is the ill-conceived notion that if you need more room in the tummy or bust, you must also need it in the shoulders. This is rarely true! I have found Ulla Popken to be the better fit than most, though not as great a quality as I would prefer and you need to go down a couple sizes than other stores. Also have found that its best to steer clear of anything with princess seams! Whoever thought those were a good idea I’ll never know!

    1. It must depend on one’s body. Princess seams are my friend. I use a dress pattern and a jacket pattern, both with princess seams, for many of my clothes. I also am grateful for my Nordstom alterations credit that comes with my rewards points every year. I just used part of it to have the sleeves of a Pendleton jacket shortened. The credit can be used for non-Nordstrom clothing, although it costs more.

  10. I am not really a “P” in some ways, being about 5’4″ (down now from A bit over 5″5″), but my proportions seem to be a petite. IOW, scaling down lengths and volumes. For my everyday basic present life, Lands End pants (khakis and cords) in size 6P fit very well. For basic shirts, JJill (yes) petite slightly fitted ones are fine, in denim and cotton. For dressier items, I might venture into the misses area and have alterations made. Your suggestions, BTW, about EF 3/4 silk tees are much appreciated. So flattering with both skirts and pants.

  11. There are so few petite offerings in the UK, for some reason there’s so many more options in the US – now I know you aren’t a race of small folk, so I’ve yet to work out why that’s so.
    Finding a few petite offerings in town last week was a revelation for me, coats and jackets with sleeves that fit – amazing!

  12. My conclusion about Eileen Fisher is that when she is good she is very, very good, and when she is bad she is awful.
    But we’re talking about a clothing designer. Some of her pieces are wonderful on my figure, and others aren’t. Her fabrics and workmanship are often of very good quality and justify the high prices. (I never pay full price for her things.)
    What I have found is that designers I relied on in the past (Ralph Lauren, Talbots) have lowered their quality standards so dramatically that I rarely find anything of theirs worth buying. So I seek out those EF pieces that fit me and look good.
    I wear plus sizes. I appreciate that she makes an effort to provide beautiful clothes in this size range.

  13. I try to keep an open mind about brands. Vince is a good one, when I worked at Bloomingdale’s I spent a lot of quality time with their clothes both on the floor and in the stockroom and they are well-made and lovely. I think of Vince as classics with an edgy twist! They do go on sale and you can save a lot so make sure to check regularly. Great post.

  14. How do Karina dresses fit on a petite body? I am 5’4″, but very short waisted and usually need to buy petite dresses.

    1. Sara, I think they fit well through the torso. I do have my Megan’s hemmed, but the Penelope’s hit me right below the knee.

    2. I’m 5’3″ and hourglass shaped. My Megan dresses hit me mid-knee and I don’t alter them. My Rita dress, and the Gala dress hit at the bottom of my knee. I haven’t bothered having those taken up yet. I’ve found the fit through the torso with Karina Dresses to be excellent for me.

  15. I am aware of how lucky I am to be able to wear clothes right off the rack. I wonder if there are any stores–Brooks Brothers?–that provide women with the same alteration services as they do men. FREE and beyond hemming. That’s why men look good in suits.

    I haven’t had wool pants in a long time, but I would hesitate to buy any unlined–they can itch! A lined pair of wool crepe pants–that would be wonderful!

    As to the tall woman above–my daughter got some pants of a Danish brand–lots of tall women there. They were hugely marked down too! One of my students with a 36 inseam bought her pants at J Crew–that was some time ago.

  16. I have long legs and a short torso. After years of trying to make regular length pants work, I’ve finally started refusing to buy them because putting in a hem facing to get maximum length still isn’t enough, and they just never look right. Now, I only buy brands that offer a long option. Not to be confused with tall sizes, because I only need the extra length in the legs. I’ve learned you have to ask – Coldwater Creek stores don’t carry long sizes, but they can be ordered. And Land’s End, for some styles, lets you specify exact length. I’m also working on perfecting my sewing skills. I copied a pair of EF cropped pants with contour waist that fit very well, and made long unlined pants in linen. They turned out very well. I think if I keep making them in different fabrics my skills will improve & I’ll graduate to lined pants.

    Recently I tried on a petite top & found the fit was fine.

    Someone here complained about princess lines, but I find they work for me. It all comes down to finding what works for you, and having the self-discipline to stick with it. But, our bodies do change over time, so keep an open mind and try on some new things from time to time.

  17. I have narrow shoulders so I saved some small shoulder pads when I disposed of my ’80s clothes. I’ve found they make a tremendous difference in the looks of a sweater – especially EFs. I guess that qualifies as an alteration.

  18. This is a little off the topic of sizing, but I just bought a pair of slim ankle-length black pants at Banana Republic — mine are not wool — and am trying to figure out whether I can keep wearing them as the weather gets colder. So far I’ve worn mine with black pumps, like in the picture. I’d love to pair them with a sweater, but what would I wear on my feet — should I tuck the pants into tall boots, or would they look okay with booties? I can’t decide.

  19. These pants are lovely, and I have a number of pairs of lined wool pants in my closet–all professionally tailored and hemmed, just for me. Unfortunately, the days wool pants can be worn in my climate are few and far between. Also, for the investment made in them, I haven’t gotten a good return, due to my mostly casual lifestyle. When I dress up, I wear a dress. When I am dressy casual, I prefer my Frankie pants from Worth NY (sometimes with one of my EF viscose jersey tops).

    Often with pants, I have difficulty finding pants long enough for me. I’m just a bit shy of 5′ 8″ tall, but have longer than average legs for my height. For this reason, I never mind buying pants that need to be hemmed shortly. I’m just grateful that the maker was willing to use enough fabric to provide pants long enough for someone just a bit above average in height.

  20. I’ve read that once you find a place that sells pants that fit you, stick with them. I’m 5’2″ and have had good luck with the pants at Talbots, which I have found to be well made. They have a variety of fits & styles so you’re bound to find the right one for your body. I go for Vince tops at Nordstroms, but stick with Talbots for my pants, jeans & cords.

  21. My alteration lady is definitely my best friend. She re-invents old favourites and I normally have the waist taken in on trousers as I have to buy a size larger to get the hips to hang correctly.

  22. I’m perhaps a half inch taller than you so 5’1 1/2″, (every little bit counts!) I just take it as a given that I’ll have to hem pants, jeans, skirts and jacket sleeves. Luckily I learned how to sew as a teenager, and can do a good job on these simpler alterations myself.

    A great tip I got from a book called ‘Short Chic’ was that if the pants taper in at the ankle, then make them narrower when you shorten them so that the bottom stays the same size as on the original length. Tapering the legs in below the knee makes all the difference to the look of a stylish pair of slim pants on a height challenged individual.

    My big problem is my chest – I’m a DD and I can never find a tailored jacket that fits both my chest and my shoulders/neck. I’ve been told it’s too difficult to take in the neck shoulder line, and of course there’s never extra fabric to let out around the torso. I’ve been lucky enough to find some shirts that fit well at my fave resale shop, but I really envy the women who can throw on a fitted jacket and go!

  23. Almost all of my “go to” brands have let me down in some way – even my standard t shirt stores/brands. So I shop a lot less on the whole (due to aggravation) and it seems boutiques and stores I never ventured into much have come through for me. I find things when not looking.And oddly enough – upscale sporting goods stores like Lucy have been more fun to shop in for basics that the standard mall stores (jackets, pants, tops that mix in well with other items without looking sporty at all).

    So I have become very open minded. I am 5’6″ which I think used to be average but I am all over the place fit wise these days. As a short waisted busty person I shop petite depts for tops at times. Nordstrom is actually one of the few standard stores I still bother with as they do have some variety.

    I do think finding a good brand or source of pants is much like a good foundation/makeup – if you find a good one its a VERY good day. I am very loyal when I find a perfect item.

    I have to accept that tailors may be part of my life soon – its hard as I was always a perfect fit for things for a long time. I used to wear off the rack unaltered. Dang. 🙁

  24. Although I am a bit taller than you (5’4″), almost all my pants need to be altered. I have very short legs and a long torso. I discovered the trick of trying cropped or ankle length pants and have decreased the number of items needing alteration by 50%. Our shopping choices are very limited here, unless I want to travel 2 hours to Albany- and I can only visit Nordstrom when I go to Massachusetts. So I haven’t had the opportunity to explore designer items and must rely on Lord and Taylor, Coldwater Creek and Macy’s. Two people above spoke of “Vince”. Is this Vince Camuto or another brand entirely. And where is the brand found?

  25. I love Vince but can only buy it online from Australia, and pants are one thing I just can’t buy without trying on. I’m about 5’4 (or 3, not really sure) and a US 0 in most brands, and I ALWAYS have to have pants hemmed, except jeans. Last week I actually bought two pairs of dressy wide-leg oants (having said I wouldn’t go there again), one to hem for flats and one to hem for heels. I’m about to try out a new tailor who was recommended to me by one of the most chic women I know … fingers crossed, although not much is likely to go wrong with hemming! I’m yet to attempt alterations on a jacket or more complex item – there are a couple of brands here that make blazers in my size that always fit just right – shoulders, arm length, body length – so they’re my first stop when I need a new jacket.

  26. Check out Alvin Valley online for pants! The New York Times says he designs the best fitting pants for women on the market. There are suggestions for those best for petites, some are unhemmed.

  27. I popped over and read that discussion of EF. I found it very mean-girl and judgy. Clothing for nuns? Really?

    I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. Very tall and broad and a plus 16 in most brands. I can wear a L or XL in Eileen Fisher and I’m happy to have the option. Most plus clothing is cheaply made from synthetic fabrics. It’s lovely to be able to buy natural fibers that can be cared for without dry cleaning (which is truly awful for us, our clothing, and our environment.)

    Anyway, I feel you on the petite ghetto, but believe me, the plus ghetto is worse! Glad you are finding things that work for you.

    And you always look fab in your EF!

    1. I just did the same and yeah, it was pretty mean girl-y. Seems we don’t outgrow that.

      I always thought I was too short for EF, but this very blog right here opened my eyes. I think it has a very japanese in the 80s style vibe to it. Well made and good fabrics too. I don’t love all of it but there is usually 1 piece per season that catches my eye.

      My only real complaint w/ EF is the overabundance of charcoal gray as I cannot wear grey at all.

    2. I felt the same way about all the posts from the other article. Something tells me if Christie Brinkley wore EF she still wouldn’t look like a nun.

  28. Great discussion. At 5’1″ (OK, now 5′ 1/2″ and shrinking), and curvy, EF petites were a temptation for me because of the fabrics and sizing, and I indulged for a year–on sales–with “good” albeit unexciting basics. The lack of styling details, reliance on boxy shapes (I’ll give the moto jacket and coated denims–which don’t fit me at all), and dearth of more oomph hit me early this year. Also, EF lasts–something wonderful, and many basics don’t have to replaced for a long time. I have mixed EF dresses with a thin leather Vince moto jacket, loose EF tops with Vince pants–wool and summer linens–(always have to have them hemmed), and Helmut Lang draped tops with nice V-necks with EF basic pants (viscose, ponte knit), as well as jeans. Helmut can be more edgy, but perfect drape under a blazer/jacket/sweater. Theory used to be a favorite go-to for pants with top pockets, not slit ones at hips. I’ve gained weight, so those are out. Joie is another “good” brand with consistently good fabrics and finishes, and mixes well with others. Shockingly, I’ve found AG skinny jeans nice and stretchy at the waist, and a great fit with other items. Morale of my story–look around, there are lots of good choices without moving up to the stratosphere tier to long Chanel jackets (too heavy for L.A.–resale only $$$/investment), Akris Punto (Swiss–gorgeous fabrics), Armani (never fits me without lots of alteration), Jil Sander (love her fabrics, clean styling, but prices are outrageous). Sorry, Sue, alterations are a fact of life for us.

  29. I’ll be honest, I just don’t get the nun thing from EF. I’m a recent convert and discovered the brand in part because of this blog. I’ve passed into my 40s and I’m in a high-paced and active job that I love, but I don’t have a clue what to wear anymore. Everything started to feel too young — not in the sense that I was beating myself up but in the sense that nothing in my closet sang to me. And I love my clothes to sing! I’ve always loved dressing up and I want clothes I can run and be me in. And high quality is hard to find! Theory is nice, but they don’t like a curvy on top woman with broad shoulders — though also on the edge of petite — so they don’t get my money.

    As for EF, I enjoy it because it feels sensual and avant garde actually, so I’m puzzled by the discussion you linked. I splurged on this coppery silk shirt that makes me shiver with delight every time I put it on. I love the architectural shapes and they seem interesting to me. I was never brave enough to contemplate skinny jeans until EF organic cotton skinnies. The other day, I was wearing EF black ankle pants, my silk shirt, long scarf, and a merino crew sweater from J Crew, plus my beloved El Naturalista ankle boots. Someone in a meeting told me I looked very European! It was a very nice compliment and I do feel simple yet dramatically chic in EF. Not every piece does it for me, but an awful lot do, and they don’t fall apart. And I can run up the stairs in them!

  30. PS. I looked at the EF lookbook at Bloomingdale’s last week and I really loved it.

    http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/womens-apparel/eileen-fisher?id=10205

    That looks pretty kicky to me and not at all nun-like. The black knit skirt with the yellow sweater and stripey scarf? That’s my fall uniform with black leggings and a messenger bag. That’s not just how I dress, it’s how I live… and it took me a while to get brave enough to wear a knit black pencil skirt, too!

  31. At 5’4″ like other posters, I’m right on the cusp between petites and misses. I find that if I buy ankle length pants, they tend to hit at just the right spot, meaning no hemming. Where I have trouble is in shirts, as I’m a size 2-4, but with wide shoulders. If I buy something to fit the shoulders, it’s tight across the back and inevitably not long enough to tuck in, and the arms are usually too long, no matter what. Having the arm altered has been way too expensive, so all my shirts get turned back at the cuff. It’s become a uniform look, whether I wanted to or not. As for quality, it tends to be lacking in most brands at almost any price point. The idea of lightweight silk long johns as a lining is brilliant, provided the cut of the pants allows it. Oh, how I wish I could sew…

  32. I’m amazed that you have been shopping for so long in the petite departments at stores. I’m 5’8″ and have always had to have most things lengthened as I’m just not tall enough for tall clothes. If you’ve gone this long without a permanent seamstress, count yourself fortunate.

  33. At 5′ (on a good day), it’s nice to see the petite issue addressed! Dresses are and almost always have been impossible. Like you, a few Eileen Fisher petite s have worked for me for years. I have also had great luck with INC petite pants and Ann Taylor petite skirts. Jackets and coats – very tricky.

  34. une femme, as a petite I shop on line with Nordstrom A LOT with back up visits to two local stores to check fit and color in person. I’m certainly getting my money’s worth with the free shipping as a Nordstrom cardholder. My go-to outfits are NYDJ skinny jeans (colored and patterned as well as dark denim), a Pleone shirt (XS or S regular), and a Halogen sweater (usually M regular.) I have a few very nice petite size Halogen jackets — but that label is all over the board high/ low quality, and my buddies at the petite department tell me it’s being phased out and Caslon will be expanded. I like the quality and styling of Vince, but most often even the S size garments are cut too narrow and/ or have too much fabric and overwhelm me. I think petites do have a good selection of coats and jackets — cole haan, burberry, Cinzia Rocca (yum) EF — but they are pricy. Ann Taylor is too cutesy for me, Talbots makes me want to pull my hair out. J Crew and BR are more current but are pretty preppy, and I like knits. We need to find more sources!

  35. I have never forgotten something I read years ago that I still find to be true, unfortunately. “Petite clothing comes in three styles: Little Grandma, Little Hooker, and Little Businesswoman.” I live in a midsized city now, from the small university town I grew up in, but the selection at my two Nordstroms still don’t cut it.

  36. The pants look great! Sizing is always so off that it’s a great idea to try different sizing. I even try petites sometimes at 5’6″. I always use a tailor. I give my tailor a Christmas bonus I visit her so much. I hate it when I put on a dress (what a wear most days) and there are weird bulges or extra fabric. You really can make a clothing item flatter your figure better by narrowing a skirt at the knees and hemming to the best length. I hope the pants turn out to be favorites!

  37. You guys are lucky to have as much choice as you do! In New Zealand almost all shops only stocked one length of trousers so at 5’4 I had to pay for pretty much every single pair of trousers to be hemmed. There were one hour hemming places in the malls, it was so routine.

    It’s such a luxury in England to have two or three length options in trousers and sometimes in skirts (M & S is great at having longer miniskirts).